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QUESTION AND ANSWER SESSION APPG MEETING (CHILDREN AND CANNABIS)

by CanSS, posted 01 11 2010

Karen Richardson – What was the title and author of a book mentioned in the talk given by Kathy Gyngell?

Kathy -   The book is called “Skippy Dies” by Paul Murray.

Paul Hira stated that sometimes harm reduction is the only option as some of their clients are already drug users.  He says that harm reduction does work to keep young people already using drugs safe, but he agreed that drug workers need to work from a holistic stand point and that drug prevention is vital to stop young people from starting to use drugs in the first place.  He said that we have to challenge the message coming from the streets that says that drugs are glamorous.

Karen Richardson said that in her experience when meow meow was made illegal, usage in the schools she deals with dropped significantly.

Kathy stated that schools have allowed themselves to be led down the path of harm reduction.  She feels that this slippage needs to be stopped and that both schools and parents need to lay down very firm boundaries to young people and to promote the drug prevention message.

Marilyn Shaw stated that she tells the children in the schools she visits how their drug use affects their parents.  She tells them of the harm it causes to their families and asks the children if they want their parents to be standing at their gravesides.  She lets them know that this is a very real possibility if they get involved in drugs and says that it makes a real difference if young people are told truthfully of the consequences of their drug use.

Kathy agreed and said that harm reduction has removed sanctions and that adults need to put these back into place.

Ibrahim Nelson (Newham SPARK) said that when he goes into schools he delivers the drug prevention message.  He now though works with substance misusers.  He said that it is very difficult to go against current drug policy which states harm reduction when working in the substance misuse field.  He stated that once people are users, there is no choice but to adopt a harm reduction stand point.

He agreed that schools should very firmly adopt a drug prevention stance and to inform young people about the harm that drug use can do to them and to their families.

Kathy stated that by using the harm reduction policy in drug education in schools, what we have done is to normalise drug use, rather than make it the exception.  Current education comes from the view point that ALL young people are going to use drugs, although figures prove that this is not correct.

Tony Smeeton who runs a support group for families of drug and alcohol users stated that families need to draw boundaries and withdraw support from their family member’s usage.

He said that family members of users need to go into schools to explain what damage drug use has caused them and how it has destroyed their family life.

Kathy agreed.  She stated that children must be told honestly that the risks to them and their health and future life are high.  She stated that both we as parents, and schools need to reinforce respect for the law and the fact that taking drugs is illegal.

Mary Brett emphasised very firmly that harm reduction under the last government and the expression “give informed choice” did not work.  She stated that we would not give our children the choice of running in the road, etc and harming themselves, so why should we allow them the choice of harming themselves with illegal drugs.  Both parents and children need to be educated and informed properly as to the dangers of taking drugs.

They need to know that it is a biological fact that our brains do not finish developing until our early twenties.  The section of our brains that makes us take risks develops first, but the bit that deals with our ability to assess and deal with risk and inhibits risky behaviour comes much later.

She stated that parents and teachers need to lay down firm boundaries and that children do appreciate that discipline as it helps them to deal with peer pressure.  If drug taking is not the norm, peer pressure will be less.

She agreed that if children are using, they should be dealt with on an individual basis with harm reduction playing a part in eventual abstinence whilst helping to keep them safe whilst this is achieved.

Kathy also agreed that we need to deal with the here and now as well as putting in new ways of dealing with drug use and prevention.  She stated that as parents we need to step in and put firm boundaries in place.

Sean Buffonge (Newham SPARK) agreed that prescriptions for methadone do not work as harm reduction as all the evidence points to users still carrying on using street drugs in addition to the prescription.  Even those who do not use street drugs are not using methadone as a means to abstinence but as a substitute for the drugs, sometimes reportedly for some years.  He agreed that this was never the intended purpose for methadone prescriptions.  He said that in his experience, the most effective treatments for drug addiction were multi pronged, using also counselling services.

Kathy agreed, but said that psycho social counselling was not often used during a harm reduction treatment programme.

Sean felt that this was particularly applicable to cannabis users, as it was still seen even in some professional circles as a benign substance.

Kathy said that sometimes it helped to persuade young people to go along to groups such as Marijuana Anonymous for support as sometimes talking to other people who have used can really help.  Many other drug treatment centres are more geared to deal with the so called harder drugs, and many cannabis users do not feel they are applicable to them.  They feel that the other drug users look down on them and feel that they are wasting resources.  All drug treatment services and users need to recognise cannabis dependence.

Sean said that sometimes in their experience, it is better to initially tell their substance abusers to reduce their use first, and then aim for abstinence.

Kathy answered that programmes that advocate alcohol reduction/heroin reduction therapies have proved to be not at all effective.  She also stated that addicts very often have cross addictions which need to be dealt with in conjunction.

Karen Richardson said that parents need educating as well, and that this education for them is missing at the moment.

Vanessa Turvey from ROACH (Rule out Adolescent Cannabis Harm) visits schools for drug education visits.  She says that when she gives talks, she plays the young people tapes that simulate a psychotic episode and makes them listen to the tapes on headphones.  She says that when they have finished listening to the tapes, they have far more understanding of the isolation of psychotic episodes and the damage cannabis use can cause.

Kathy reiterated that putting in firm boundaries and saying no can really relieve children who are feeling peer pressure. She said that we needed to look to Sweden and the system that they use there.  Childcare workers pick up kids who are using on the streets and then bring in schools, parents, etc to help deal with their drug use.  This protects the young people and can halt the addiction in its tracks.  Sweden has a far lower percentage of drug users than the UK.

Surjit Basra said that she has been trying for some time now to get into schools to do more on the education of parents front, but to date has had little success.  The schools have not been motivated to move on this issue.  She would like to start an education programme aimed at Year 6 of primary level, as sometimes, by the time they reach secondary level, they have already been targeted by both dealers and older children who use.  Her local DAAT team spent several weeks with her son, but he did not feel that the groups he was attending were relevant to him.  He found that the drug assistance was more geared to the so called harder drugs, with cannabis rarely getting a mention.  This was also the experience of his peers.  They felt they were being left with the impression that cannabis use was not a serious problem.

Surjit has since started a Marijuana Anonymous group in her area which has not only helped her son, but also has achieved quite a lot of success with other young people as they felt it was more relevant to them.

Kathy agreed with much of Surjit's statement about the way in which cannabis is portrayed.  She stated that cannabis is tolerated these days without sanction and that people need to realise that they are breaking the law.  Cannabis use is illegal.

Susan Bedak, whose son is in hospital in psychiatric unit at present, says that there is no cognitive therapy, no proper treatment and that her son is mostly heavily sedated.  He started smoking cannabis at 16 and had his first psychotic breakdown in 2003.  Since then he has been hospitalised 16 times.  It has destroyed not only his life, but also that of her family.  The stress of trying to deal with his psychosis has caused the breakdown of her marriage and completely altered the pattern of their lives.  He was a very bright, able young man, well educated and with everything to live for, now he is like a zombie, with no prospects of ever living a normal life.  He now has full blown schizophrenia.

Kathy stated that it is a national scandal.  We first had evidence and information at the end of the 1990s about the mental health problems linked with cannabis use, but that government still went down the route of harm reduction, choosing to ignore the huge implications.  Even at that time there was a mass of evidence linking cannabis use to psychosis.

Dr John Patience said that there is little investment in means of family support.  He says that there is a strong argument for support for the families of users, as they are the ones ultimately facing the consequences of drug abuse.

He said however, that he felt that there was some degree of rationality with the current harm reduction policy.  He feels that policing needs to be done in communities and that there needs to be a huge investment in support.

Sean Buffonge said in his experience some adults are supporting both alcohol and cannabis use.  He also asked whether there was any evidence of cannabis related deaths.

Vanessa Turvey replied, after working in the mental health system for 15 years, she had seen the problems caused by cannabis used.  She stated that it very often was implicated in deaths, although not actually put as the cause of death.

Jeremy Edwards then asked Charles Walker if there was any news about the progress of the new Government Drug Policy.

Charles Walker said that although it was not yet ready to be presented, it is on its way and would likely be released at the end of the year.  He reiterated that cannabis use is illegal.

Charles Walker then closed the meeting and thanked everyone for what had been a very lively discussion.